Dr. Acacia Parks Spills the Tea on FDA Approvals, ISO Standards, and Digital Therapeutics

[00:00:04] Welcome to the High Tea with Grace podcast, where we spill the tea on HIT. Today, I'm honored to welcome Dr. Acacia Parks, CEO of Liquid Amber Consulting and advisor at Lindis Health and other pharma-focused companies. She is a baller boss woman, which is something that we just said, and I can't wait for you to learn from her. Thanks for joining us, Acacia.

[00:00:25] Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.

[00:00:28] So let's dive right in. You are all over the place when it comes to pharma, and you work with all of the top names in the industry.

[00:00:36] So I just want you to tell me a little bit about the career path that brought you to your advisory role at Lindis Health and other major companies today.

[00:00:43] Yeah, I think it all starts with the fact that I really believe in digital health as an approach.

[00:00:48] I'm a person living in a rural area with various health conditions.

[00:00:53] I get migraines, I have bipolar disorder, I was obese for a long time, though we could get into GLP once and a whole other conversation maybe.

[00:01:00] But with all of these conditions, I've had a horrible time trying to get access to evidence-based care, and I've really benefited tremendously from health technology for all of these conditions.

[00:01:09] So I've worked in digital health for 15 years now, and I spent the majority of that time in leadership positions, working full-time in one company in mental health and obesity primarily.

[00:01:23] And doing that helped me see some high-level issues in the industry and digital therapeutics or digital health that I really felt strongly needed addressing.

[00:01:30] So I found myself wanting to make a broader impact by working with as many companies as possible and organizations like the Digital Therapeutics Alliance, which are moving the whole industry forward.

[00:01:40] So I created a consulting firm, Liquid Amber, as you said, and I found that in my two years as a consultant, I've been able to make a much broader contribution to digital therapeutics.

[00:01:50] And it's let me do things like work with the DTA on their certification program for digital therapeutics and being able to advise companies like Lindus, which when you're working in one particular place, you really got to only work on furthering the agenda of that one place.

[00:02:02] But I feel like I want to further the agenda of digital therapeutics, and I do that by helping as many different places as possible.

[00:02:09] So fascinating.

[00:02:10] So let's kind of dive into the Digital Therapeutics Alliance.

[00:02:14] Why is it important for pharma and digital health industries to get involved in organizations like this?

[00:02:20] And what is it?

[00:02:21] Yeah.

[00:02:22] Yeah.

[00:02:22] The Digital Therapeutics is a global nonprofit trade association.

[00:02:26] So it brings together industry leaders and stakeholders in digital therapeutics to advance evidence-driven digital therapeutics.

[00:02:33] So that's essentially digital software that has a health purpose that we can prove is safe and effective.

[00:02:40] I care about that a lot because imagine if you were a doctor and if you went to a doctor.

[00:02:46] Three, two, one.

[00:02:47] So imagine if you went to a doctor and there was a 90% chance they'd give you something that has no scientific evidence behind it.

[00:02:53] And that's the world that we live in, digital health, right?

[00:02:55] The majority of things you can get from the app store have no requirement to even be based on science, let alone demonstrate it to be effective.

[00:03:02] And so, you know, I'm not like a representative of the DTA, but I am a huge cheerleader for them because I think they represent this idea of furthering evidence-based digital software.

[00:03:14] So it's a really amazing, it's an amazing organization where all of the leaders are coming together trying to address things that you can't address alone, like reimbursement.

[00:03:25] No one company is going to solve that problem, but if we band together as a bunch of companies and represent the industry, a lot can get done.

[00:03:33] And so Annie Molnar is the leader there and Jessica Hoffler is the COO.

[00:03:37] And they're both just incredible advocates of furthering public policy and regulatory policy and just general education to the field and stakeholders around what digital therapeutics can do.

[00:03:50] So fascinating.

[00:03:51] The FDA process, just working with digital health companies myself on the consultancy side, I see it's just so confusing for everybody starting in the middle and how the whole process can feel like a maze.

[00:04:06] What advice would you give companies that are starting on the journey of navigating FDA approvals for digital therapeutics?

[00:04:12] And does being involved in the DTA and supporting some of their efforts have anything to do with that?

[00:04:19] Where do they start?

[00:04:21] Yeah, so I think my biggest piece of advice is to talk to FDA.

[00:04:25] If a company wants to understand what the FDA wants, there's no secret place you can go to find that out other than the FDA.

[00:04:33] And companies like to avoid communication because they're afraid it's going to put them at risk or hurt them somehow.

[00:04:39] But FDA has all of these processes in place to facilitate dialogue with them.

[00:04:42] And it's important to use those processes.

[00:04:44] The DTA also, I think, does a lot of work to demystify that for its member companies.

[00:04:50] There's some amazing opportunities.

[00:04:53] Like I would just say right now, they have various work groups that help companies understand different parts of the industry.

[00:04:58] But they currently have one around PIDURS, which is an FDA guidance that's been issued about getting software added to the labels of drugs.

[00:05:09] So it's this very complex thing.

[00:05:11] And one of the leading experts in this topic is Marty Kalyat at Eversana.

[00:05:17] And he works with DTA in this work group on PIDURS.

[00:05:25] So if you were a company trying to understand what PIDURS is, you can join this work group and work with some of the leaders in the field,

[00:05:32] the people who understand this regulatory cutting edge stuff the most and get to really benefit from that knowledge.

[00:05:40] So I do think that it's important to connect with other companies, to collaborate.

[00:05:45] I've always thought about my role as trying to see where people are helping each other in digital therapeutics and go there,

[00:05:53] be a part of that and be a part of this idea of the rising tide lifts all ships.

[00:05:58] So to me, the DTA is a huge part of how we lift all ships as an industry.

[00:06:05] And so, yeah, it's a great place to have companies understand what's what and to demystify some of these otherwise kind of mystifying processes.

[00:06:17] So what do you define as digital therapeutics?

[00:06:20] There's a lot of definitions out there.

[00:06:22] What is something that you feel others...

[00:06:24] What is your definition of it?

[00:06:26] And what do you wish others knew about it?

[00:06:30] What are some misconceptions about digital therapeutics that you wish more companies, pharma understood when it came to innovation and then just regulatory understanding?

[00:06:39] Yeah, I've had to think about a lot of this lately because one of the many things that I'm doing these days is working with the Digital Therapeutics Alliance on their certification program for DTX.

[00:06:49] So it's essentially companies being able to go through this program and say,

[00:06:52] we're officially a digital therapeutic because we've been through this certification program.

[00:06:56] So I've had to think a lot about what that means and what goes into that.

[00:07:00] And to me, one of the really like poor features of a digital therapeutic is that there is data to show that it's safe and effective.

[00:07:08] So unlike if we talked about the 90% of digital health solutions that don't have to prove that they're safe or effective could be anything,

[00:07:16] could be doing something evidence-based, who knows?

[00:07:18] The difference between a digital therapeutic and a digital health solution is just huge.

[00:07:23] And I think that it's easy to just be like, oh, this looks official.

[00:07:27] There's an app in the store.

[00:07:28] Like it probably is going to help me.

[00:07:30] Right.

[00:07:30] But the distinction of being a digital therapeutic is to have this official.

[00:07:37] We've taken the time to really show that this works.

[00:07:40] It's like the difference between a supplement or maybe an alternative medicine approach, which may work, but may not work.

[00:07:47] They're not required to show evidence that they work versus a drug with FDA approval, which has had to go through the ringer.

[00:07:53] Drugs have to go through a lot for approval.

[00:07:56] So do medical devices.

[00:07:57] And some digital therapeutics are medical devices.

[00:08:00] But what holds them all together is that they've submitted to a relatively rigorous looking inward and really testing that this is something that's going to help people.

[00:08:10] That makes sense.

[00:08:12] And I think it is very different than folks think about.

[00:08:15] You can't just go to an app and think that it's going to fix your depression, right?

[00:08:19] Lots of apps promise that they will, but yeah.

[00:08:23] Really, it does.

[00:08:24] And so in this space and in this industry, when companies are looking to become a digital therapeutic company, say they do eventually get the FDA approval.

[00:08:33] What have been some of the challenges that they're facing in terms of reimbursements and where do you hope the industry makes a change there so that digital therapeutics can be more widely adopted?

[00:08:45] Yeah, I think how are digital therapeutics going to get paid for is one of the hugest challenges that we've been dealing with for years now.

[00:08:52] And there are some recent major improvements in how certain classes of digital therapeutics can get reimbursed, which is huge.

[00:09:01] A lot of the change when it comes to reimbursement starts in CMS and then other health plans follow from there.

[00:09:09] And so we're starting to see some movement, but it's not a done deal at all.

[00:09:13] And it's tricky because a lot of digital health is self-pay.

[00:09:16] People just pay out of pocket.

[00:09:18] And in some areas, to go back to GLP-1s for one second, people are paying hundreds of dollars a month to get a GLP-1 mailed to them out of pocket because they want it.

[00:09:27] But there are a lot of areas of health where people are not willing to pay out of pocket.

[00:09:32] Mental health is a really great one where people seem to expect in general that either their employer or their insurance plan is going to cover something for mental health and they're not going to pay for it out of pocket.

[00:09:41] So getting these things into the hands of people, reimbursement becomes really central.

[00:09:47] But there are other barriers as well.

[00:09:50] Regulatory clearance remains something that's really tough to get.

[00:09:53] And part of why I got really, first of all, I spent a lot of time helping companies get regulatory clearance.

[00:09:58] I believe in the process.

[00:09:59] I think it's really important.

[00:10:01] I think the FDA does a lot of work to help foster innovation as much as they can, given the constraints that they have.

[00:10:08] But one thing that I think is so cool about the DTA's certification program that it's in public comment now.

[00:10:15] We designed the criteria.

[00:10:16] It's in public comment.

[00:10:17] And then next year, we're going to start actually running programs through it.

[00:10:21] But something that's so great about that is that it's something between getting FDA clearance and the Wild West of digital health, where it may or may not work.

[00:10:29] Who knows?

[00:10:30] So it's something in between where the companies that will have that distinction can have this rubber stamp of, yes, they've demonstrated they're safe and effective in a way that is more meaningful than maybe the sort of general marketplace of digital health.

[00:10:46] So it's potentially a waypoint to regulatory clearance or another way of viewing the evidence on a product.

[00:10:53] I think that's so important, though, because there's so many, as we said, products out there.

[00:10:59] And consumers need some way to tell that this one's worth my time.

[00:11:04] This one's worth my money.

[00:11:05] So the certification program is live now, then.

[00:11:09] And folks are starting to apply for that?

[00:11:11] Or is that something that...

[00:11:12] It's coming soon.

[00:11:14] So we just...

[00:11:16] We had a committee together with a group called Direct Trust that, you know, a known name in certification programs.

[00:11:24] And so they guided us through this process of developing the criteria.

[00:11:28] Lots of stakeholders from different digital therapeutics companies played a role in that.

[00:11:32] And then Jessica Hoflair from the Digital Therapeutics Alliance was my main partner.

[00:11:39] So we developed these criteria.

[00:11:40] And now they're posted publicly for a comment period, meaning anybody can look at them and leave comments and suggestions.

[00:11:47] And then once we've implemented those suggestions or address them in one way or another, then I think early next year, it's planned to launch.

[00:11:56] So it's pretty exciting.

[00:11:57] That's very exciting.

[00:11:58] And then it can give companies that first step before they start talking to the FDA or start really working towards the FDA approval.

[00:12:05] What do you feel the best timeline is for folks now with this new certification program and then working towards FDA approval?

[00:12:13] Do you think that they should be doing it in parallel?

[00:12:15] What is your advice as an FDA liaison and then someone who's also involved in the DTA?

[00:12:20] Yeah, it really depends on what it's trying to do.

[00:12:24] So there are some products, I think, where it's clear from the beginning that they need clearance to claim what they're trying to claim.

[00:12:32] And so there really is no there's no getting around doing what FDA needs them to do.

[00:12:38] And the cleanest path is to just go for that.

[00:12:40] I do think there are also products that will never have to go through FDA clearance to do claiming they do.

[00:12:48] There are certain kind of areas of things that you can claim that are just don't reach the level that FDA will regulate it.

[00:12:55] And so those companies may stay there forever.

[00:12:58] And for them, there's tremendous value in going through some kind of a process that isn't FDA clearance because they don't need to do that.

[00:13:06] But that shows the legitimacy of what they're what they're claiming.

[00:13:12] For those companies, I think the value proposition is pretty clear.

[00:13:15] And then companies, I see a lot of this, actually, that are playing in the sort of wellness digital health space now and gathering data.

[00:13:25] But someday they may go for clearance and that this kind of certification might be a valuable step on the way there where you have some data and things are looking good.

[00:13:35] And but it might not be the exact data that FDA wants or needs to see.

[00:13:39] It might be not quite enough data.

[00:13:42] Perhaps you don't have data that show that generalizes to everybody in the average U.S. population.

[00:13:47] Right. We might have it in a more agonist sample.

[00:13:51] Right. There are all kinds of reasons why people might not quite meet the FDA criteria yet, but might be on their way there.

[00:13:58] So I can imagine it being a part of any digital therapeutics product journey.

[00:14:04] But depending on the sort of regulatory destiny of that product, it might be earlier or it might be the destination itself.

[00:14:11] So interesting. Now, if I were to give you a kind of a crystal ball and you could make whatever you have happened in the future, you can see the future and you can make that future happen.

[00:14:21] What would that be in terms of what do you see to be the future of digital therapeutics?

[00:14:26] And then I want to say, what do you see to be the future of gaining FDA approval and the DTA certification, just generally speaking?

[00:14:35] Yeah, I think it's early days for the regulatory side.

[00:14:40] So everything is new.

[00:14:41] And if you think about like how regulatory predicates work, right, if you're going to try and do a 510K, you're going to try and go for substantial equivalence.

[00:14:52] Any average digital therapeutic product today is not going to look exactly like one that's been cleared.

[00:14:57] So you can be like, oh, yeah, it's a 510K.

[00:15:00] Like, here's my predicate.

[00:15:01] But often when you're seeing these 510Ks go through, their predicates don't look very similar.

[00:15:05] And so it doesn't buy you as much, right?

[00:15:07] There isn't this other company did it.

[00:15:11] And so I can use that as a blueprint for what I'm going to do.

[00:15:14] And that's going to change as more and more products come out and more and more products get cleared.

[00:15:19] There's going to be a lot more kind of possibility to cap kind of work and precedent of previous products.

[00:15:26] So time is going to, I think, address that naturally.

[00:15:29] But in terms of that sort of future, I would love it if for any disease area where there's a drug, there is a digital product that helps people use that drug as effectively as possible, helps people understand.

[00:15:44] I think for most health conditions, there are ways that software could help patient care.

[00:15:50] And for us to understand those things are and make those things available to the general public in a way that they're not paying $600 a month out of pocket for these other out of pocket solutions.

[00:16:04] It'd be really great if it was something that's integrated into health care and something that doctors think to prescribe just as readily as they think to prescribe a drug.

[00:16:11] And so I have migraines, so I can use that as an example.

[00:16:15] There's software that can help you understand when you're going to have a migraine, when triggers might make it so that you're more likely to have a migraine.

[00:16:24] You have to put a lot of data into the software, but the data can help you.

[00:16:28] There are behavioral things that you can do to help manage migraines.

[00:16:31] Now, at the same time, there are certain times that you just really need medication.

[00:16:35] But I'll tell you, I don't know if you have migraines, but when you start to have a migraine, you're not thinking at your best.

[00:16:41] And it'll sometimes take me 20 or 30 minutes to realize I could have taken a pill.

[00:16:45] It doesn't even occur to me.

[00:16:47] So there's all kinds of space in the patient journey of any disease, migraine, for example, where software could come in handy.

[00:16:57] And some of those solutions are already out there.

[00:16:59] Some of them haven't been made yet.

[00:17:01] But I'll tell you, doctors definitely aren't aware of what all of those are and aren't readily deploying them the way that they do the drugs.

[00:17:10] Absolutely.

[00:17:11] It seems like a no-brainer to me.

[00:17:14] Why aren't these doctors knowing more about these things?

[00:17:18] Do you think that there's just a lot of misconceptions about its effectivity?

[00:17:22] Or what is keeping doctors from prescribing it as readily?

[00:17:26] So some of it is the reimbursement problem, right?

[00:17:28] So there are a few FDA-cleared digital therapeutics, kind of a handful of them for a few different disease areas.

[00:17:37] But those things aren't necessarily reimbursed yet.

[00:17:40] So you might prescribe it to a patient and the patient can't get it.

[00:17:43] So that might be one piece.

[00:17:44] They might not be aware that the product exists.

[00:17:47] Or, as we talked about before, there might just be so many digital products.

[00:17:52] And it's which ones...

[00:17:53] If you're not using FDA as your rubber stamp, because there's only five things, there just aren't that many things that have gotten FDA cleared in digital therapeutics yet.

[00:18:01] And so if you're working with social anxiety, there's nothing cleared for social anxiety yet.

[00:18:07] You can look at the mass of social anxiety digital health apps, but which one do you prescribe?

[00:18:12] There's not really a clear-cut path to picking out one you can have faith in.

[00:18:18] There's also not necessarily care integration.

[00:18:21] If I'm a migraine doctor and I'm prescribing this migraine app, I might want to understand if the patient's using it and if it's helping them.

[00:18:28] But that's a whole other step that I think is next-generation digital therapeutics.

[00:18:34] It's giving doctors the data they want, not the data they don't want, right?

[00:18:37] Because they have plenty of other things to worry about.

[00:18:39] And so we don't want to give them data they don't want.

[00:18:41] But really understanding the role that digital products could play in a doctor's practice.

[00:18:47] And then designing them not only towards what the patient needs, but towards what it would take for the doctor to prescribe it and find it useful.

[00:18:54] Such good stuff.

[00:18:55] Thank you so much, Dr. Acacia.

[00:18:57] So our listeners also want to get to know you as a leader.

[00:19:00] We appreciate learning from you, but we also want to learn from you about what are things that you do to work your best and make a difference and stay at the top of your game.

[00:19:10] You're a busy professional, but you're also a human being.

[00:19:13] So tell me.

[00:19:14] No.

[00:19:15] There are any habits that you have in your personal life as you are doing this incredibly hard and challenging work with so many different companies, so many different digital therapeutics, so many different regulations.

[00:19:26] There's a lot to stay on top of.

[00:19:27] How do you do that?

[00:19:29] How do you stay on top of it and still work your best?

[00:19:31] So this may seem obvious, but a big one for me is to just identify little things that don't seem like they're interfering with productivity, but do.

[00:19:41] Like those things that you...

[00:19:42] It's easy to tune out and pretend aren't happening.

[00:19:44] For me, it's my body pain.

[00:19:46] Like I sit at a desk all day and that's not good for you, right?

[00:19:50] And I had chronic back pain for a really long time and I really discounted the impact that has on my concentration and my productivity and my stamina.

[00:19:59] But like I said, this sounds a little bit obvious, but I started exercising religiously.

[00:20:04] I have certain physical therapy exercises I do.

[00:20:06] I do weight training and I'll have distracting pain in my body all day long if I don't do those things religiously.

[00:20:13] It's not good for my productivity or my ability to have an impact if I'm just distracted by how tired or in pain I am.

[00:20:19] It's easy to ignore your body and just say, I need to work, but you're not going to work well if you're a body.

[00:20:26] I think I take that philosophy more generally as well.

[00:20:30] I think, as I said before, I have a variety of medical conditions.

[00:20:35] I take probably six different medications every day to function at my best.

[00:20:39] And someone else might feel that makes them less than or there's some kind of pressure to be like, I need to function without these things.

[00:20:48] And I'm like, I'm just trying to function my very best.

[00:20:51] And so for me, I embrace anything that can help me do that, including just getting care for things.

[00:20:58] It's easy to push down and be like, oh, this isn't a problem.

[00:21:00] This later.

[00:21:01] But I take very seriously any kind of physical or mental health thing because they can tank your productivity very quickly.

[00:21:09] And it's much harder.

[00:21:12] They say that if you don't deal with things proactively, your body will force you to deal with them.

[00:21:18] And I never want to be forced to deal with something because then you can't choose when it happens.

[00:21:23] Oh, absolutely.

[00:21:24] It seems across the board, people want to just engage in hustle culture and forget our bodies so that we can pursue just being the best and doing the best work.

[00:21:33] And it's you can't do the best work unless you are your best self and you are healthy and you're taking care of yourself.

[00:21:39] And yes, that includes working out, eating right, sleeping and taking medication if you need to take medications.

[00:21:46] I think it's really important for our listeners to hear that message.

[00:21:50] So thank you.

[00:21:51] Also, I know nobody gets into positions like you have been throughout your life without facing serious challenges in their life, whether it be health or otherwise.

[00:22:01] What are tips that you would give to our listeners about what they could be what they can do when challenges come their way to help them like work through it and move through it and find purpose through their pain?

[00:22:16] Yeah.

[00:22:17] So first of all, I can't say challenges don't get to me.

[00:22:19] It's not like you reach a point in your career where you're impervious to frustration or you never get demoralized.

[00:22:26] Just challenges get to me like to get to anybody.

[00:22:28] And when something's blocking me, there'll be times that I'm frustrated.

[00:22:31] Instead of trying to work through it, I have to have a little bit of a mourning period for that simple path I thought I had.

[00:22:38] And now something's in the way and it's more complicated.

[00:22:40] And you have this moment where you rail against it and you're like, I don't want it to be that way.

[00:22:45] And then you're just like, but it is.

[00:22:47] It's OK to let yourself have that little bit of time.

[00:22:50] I think that I used to try and keep having meetings and like sometimes it's not that I'm taking a day off.

[00:22:58] It's that I'm taking a day removing myself from other people who I might affect or myself to cope with my frustration.

[00:23:08] Like, that's OK.

[00:23:10] What can be really bad is trying to just like the painting, just trying to keep going and pretend that it's not happening.

[00:23:17] Messages your body's trying to send you about something.

[00:23:19] And so if you're just like pressing the snooze button, what happens in five minutes?

[00:23:24] Like, it's just going to ring again.

[00:23:26] So you have to actually turn the alarm clock off, which is a more complicated process.

[00:23:31] And for me, it can involve like a day of reflection with a frustration.

[00:23:35] And I call it mourning.

[00:23:38] And it is.

[00:23:39] You had this idea in your mind of like things were going to go this way and they're going a different way.

[00:23:44] And to just accept that and then move on and kick ass.

[00:23:48] But I can't get to the ass kicking without the mourning part.

[00:23:51] And I still do that today.

[00:23:53] So powerful.

[00:23:54] And you're just so right on so many levels.

[00:23:57] So I'm wondering, do you have any advice that you can give for women looking to get into a role similar to the one that you have now?

[00:24:04] What are things that you did that you think that you did well that got you to where you are?

[00:24:09] I'm too candid, but I'm going to say it anyway.

[00:24:12] The gender gap in pay is still very real.

[00:24:15] And you're probably being underpaid.

[00:24:17] If you're a woman in this industry or any industry, you are probably being underpaid.

[00:24:21] And you can tell the amount of money you should be earning because it will probably seem uncomfortably high to you.

[00:24:28] We have so been conditioned to accept less.

[00:24:31] So my biggest advice is not to be afraid to ask people what they're getting paid because many people will tell you.

[00:24:38] And the only way you're going to find out if there's a disparity is if you have data.

[00:24:44] And the reason that's important is because if you don't command a certain level of compensation for yourself, people don't take you seriously.

[00:24:52] If you're not asking for enough, you fail to command the right amount of respect.

[00:24:58] And plus, it's just effed up, right?

[00:25:01] So my biggest piece of advice that I've learned over the years is I've been asking people what they get paid for over 10 years and just collecting data about what people do in different areas, what they're doing and what they're getting paid.

[00:25:13] And many women are getting underpaid.

[00:25:17] I was getting underpaid for quite some time.

[00:25:18] And I eventually came across the data that showed me that.

[00:25:22] And it's super uncomfortable to me even still today.

[00:25:26] The level of pay that I now command, I'm still not comfortable with it.

[00:25:31] And that's how I know it's the right amount and not the underpaid amount.

[00:25:36] Snaps to that.

[00:25:38] Snaps.

[00:25:39] Girls, look into this.

[00:25:41] Women, like we are leaders in this space.

[00:25:43] We deserve to be compensated appropriately.

[00:25:46] Look into what the folks around you are making and make more than them.

[00:25:50] Period.

[00:25:50] Period.

[00:25:51] Exclamation point.

[00:25:52] Whatever you want to do.

[00:25:53] I love that.

[00:25:54] That's so insightful.

[00:25:55] So to finish this conversation off, where can our listeners find you online?

[00:25:59] So I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn.

[00:26:01] I would say that I make a habit of ingesting what I see there and commenting and posting things myself on there.

[00:26:11] Anytime I achieve something, I'm posting about it on there.

[00:26:13] I was really excited.

[00:26:14] I recently got published along with my colleagues, Ashley Willans and Jazz Croft and Harvard Business Review.

[00:26:20] It's all over LinkedIn.

[00:26:21] If you want to find that kind of stuff on me, yeah, LinkedIn is where I hang.

[00:26:25] I answer messages on LinkedIn.

[00:26:26] I'm always happy to meet people there.

[00:26:28] That's terrific.

[00:26:29] Now, before I forget, did you happen to bring tea with you today?

[00:26:33] All right.

[00:26:33] Now tell me about your mug.

[00:26:36] So my sister sent me this mug during the pandemic.

[00:26:38] And I love it because it looks like my grandma's china.

[00:26:42] That sort of like old school blue china.

[00:26:44] But it's got every kind of calamity.

[00:26:47] You can have Bigfoot's attacking.

[00:26:48] There's a pterodactyl who is a robot beating somebody with a palm tree.

[00:26:53] I just, I don't know.

[00:26:54] It has a keep calm and carry on vibe that I appreciate.

[00:26:59] That's too good.

[00:27:00] I love that.

[00:27:01] Thank you so much for joining us at Dr. Acacia Parks.

[00:27:04] We loved learning from you today.

[00:27:06] Thank you for having me.

[00:27:07] And thanks to you folks for joining us too.

[00:27:10] Check out the High Tea with Grace podcast for more great interviews with esteemed guests

[00:27:13] like Dr. Acacia today.

[00:27:15] Cheers.

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[00:27:19] It's a community.

[00:27:19] We want to meet you and amplify your voice and the voices of outstanding women innovating

[00:27:25] in healthcare.

[00:27:26] Interested in starting your own podcast or hosting an event near you?

[00:27:30] Connect with us online or in person.

[00:27:32] We're here to support and empower you.